You are sitting in a restaurant having dinner with your family. You see a couple walk in together. They come in together and are seated close enough to you that you can see facial expressions and hear them laugh, but not so close that you can hear what they say. Throughout the meal the couple is deep in conversation and it is apparent that he really cares for her, and she seems to really admire him.
You recognize the woman. She’s on the worship team at your church. You don’t attend a large church, so everyone knows everyone. You know she’s married. But not to this guy!
You continue to watch, getting rather curious. At one point you notice she has tears running down her cheeks and he seems to be talking very gently to her. But in a few minutes they are laughing and smiling again and she gives him a friendly punch in the arm as they get up to leave the table. He pays for the meal and leaves a tip under his plate. She doesn’t even attempt to pay for her own food.
***** Scroll down to the comments right now – don’t read any further – and tell me… what would you do? What are you thinking at this point? As a member of her church what is your responsibility? DO NOT read any further until you let me know what you are thinking!*****
They walk out of the restaurant. He opens the door so she can go out. She’s zipping up her sweater as she heads out. There’s a brief moment when you can’t see them. Then they end up just outside the window from where you are sitting. If you shift slightly to the left you can see them standing on the sidewalk. She’s pulled her hood up – apparently to keep the wind off her neck or from messing her hair. They stand and talk for a few minutes and then…
Oh my! He’s wrapping his arms around her in a big bear-hug sort of hug. Gives her a good squeeze, hangs on for a second or two, then lets go. He takes a few steps backward, waves at her then they both turn to go their own ways. He gets into a black Mercedes a few cars down, and she hops into the familiar Chevy she drives to church every Sunday. She sits in her car for a while, letting it run. You notice, as he pulls out from the curb and drives past, that they wave at each other.
You turn back to your fried chicken and French fries. Hmmm…. What happened there? Your mind has all kinds of things rolling through it.
Tell me…
- What does this look like to you?
- Do you have any responsibility here?
- What about the woman – do you think she owes you an explanation?
- What about if she wasn’t married? Would you think any differently? What if she was a single female leader in your youth group, would that be any different?
Next week I’ll give you a twist on this and show you a controversial verse from Scripture that comes into play in situations like this. In the meantime… answer a few questions and let me know what you think!
Interviews 2012 - Win a Kindle Touch 3G and More!
I would mind my own business. Perhaps that man was her dad, brother, cousin or uncle. Loving each other in Christ means assuming the best in others, not immediately jumping to gossipy conclusions. Since you prefaced this by saying it was a small church where everyone knew each other, at some point I would have gone over to say hello.
What does it look like? Two people having lunch. I have no responsibility here, nor does she owe me anything. She is a grown adult who doesn’t need to have her integrity questioned every time she goes out. If I were this woman, I’d be insulted at the notion that I had to explain myself to the church, so to speak.
I come from a very large family who live outside of my community. If all of my brothers, uncles and male cousins stopped by to see me, imagine what the church would think? Should I be more concerned with what God thinks, or what it might look like to church members in town? The answer should be obvious. Based on the information given in the example, there is nothing to raise red flags IF you assume the best in others.
I would be very curious. I would wonder about the man, and if things were as they should be. There is always that wondering of “well I don’t know the whole story, maybe this isn’t as bad as it seems”. As Rys was saying, it might be a man she is somehow related to. If she was a close friend of mine I would talk to her about it at a later time. But if she wasn’t a close friend of mine, I wouldn’t say anything to her about it. If I don’t know her well it seems like it is not my place to speak to her about such a matter. Especially if she is older than me.
At first glance this looks like a date that shouldn’t be happening, at least not between this man and woman. But it also looks like something a caring brother would do for his sister. If I know this woman well, then I think I should get an explanation. But if I don”t know her well I don’t think she owes me any information about the lunch at all. I mean who am I to ask? If she wasn’t married then I would wonder if they had been dating so long that she could talk to him in such a way that she would cry during the conversation. Or maybe were they breaking up and that’s why she was crying… though I don’t find that likely. If she was a single female leader in my church, I would think that they could be dating, or maybe they are related… but if she had been single just previous… could she have known him long enough that tears could come during their conversation? I think if she was a close friend of mine I would need to find out what was going on. Even though I wouldn’t necessarily suspect my friend of meeting with this man when she shouldn’t have been, I would have the responsibility of finding out what did happen. And if she was meeting with a man when she shouldn’t have been, then since she is a close friend of mine I would talk to her about how it was wrong. However, if we were not close friends, I wouldn’t approach her about this the same way as I would my close friend, if I would approach her about it at all.
I guess it would really depend on how closely I knew the woman. I think I would have gone up to her in the restaurant and said hello. My sinful side would question and wonder what she had been up to – but I wouldn’t question her unless she was a close friend. I’d be tempted to ask someone in my circle or hers – gossip, I guess – and would find it hard to refrain, but I’d try.
Perhaps, if I hadn’t gotten up to say hello, and was still really bothered by it by Sunday, I would stop her at church. I would say something like – hey, I saw you at lunch the other day, but you looked a little upset so I didn’t want to disturb you. Is everything okay? This would give her the opportunity to tell you as much or as little about the situation as she wanted to. But I wouldn’t press it farther. If she really is cheating on her husband, sin always presents itself. It doesn’t need help from others.
Now, if this was a close friend – I’d call her later the same day, and fully confront her in a loving way. I’d say I saw her at the restaurant, and wondered who she was dining with. I’d be very honest that it looked like a date, and give her a chance to explain. I feel that good friends have earned the right to call us out on things like this.
I’m interested in knowing if this is something you truely saw or if this is hypothetical. If it is something you really saw, what did you do? Also, what was your teen daughter’s reaction?
That’s a tough one. If I only know her from seeing her at church on the worship team, I also may not know her well enough to know if the man could be her father, brother, uncle, or nephew. However, I would feel compelled to catch her before she leaves, smile while telling her that I recognize her from church, and introduce myself. At that point, I would hope that she would introduce the man that she is with. I could decide what to do after that.
I would agree with some of the other comments. There are just way too many possible outcomes of what the truth is, that could be totally innocent. Judging will always get us in trouble! First of all…. it she was a good friend already, I would think that you should have gone up to talk to her at the restaurant. If it was innocent she would introduce you, and if it wasn’t, she would feel the conviction of it and the Holy Spirit would do the work and not you. It would also open the chance for conversation about it, IF you were good friends. If you are only acquaintances, either leave it alone TOTALLY, without gossip and pray for her, or take the opportunity when you see her to say that you saw her and that you saw she was upset. Is everything o.k? Is there anything I can do for you? And then be willing to leave it at whatever she shares with you. If you are in leadership at the church,you should definitely talk to her and ask if she’s o.k., and try to have the opportunity to find out if it is innocent. Though some former comments made mentioned that she shouldn’t have to answer to the church, the truth is in a way she does. Being on a worship team DOES put her in a place of higher accountability than just someone who attends a church.
Well, I think I maybe would have tried to go over to her during the meal and just say “hi”, as she might introduce me to her guest and then that could easily settle the questions, at least she would know she was seen by a fellow church member if there was anything not right going on. If she wouldn’t introduce me, I would make a point to ask her about it in church. We all need accountability, that is one of the benefits of a church family to help hold us accountable to God’s ways. This situation definitely does not look good, but it doesn’t mean we can jump to conclusions. It certainly needs to be addressed.
If she were not a married woman things would be different, an alarm would not sound off in my head. I would still try to catch her attention and let her know I saw her there either at the time or later at church.
Wow, too many possibilities to be able to judge. I guess that’s the point though. Who are we to judge but at the same time I think we are called to confront her as a Sister in Christ especially since she is on the worship team. Like a few others said, I think my response would be based on my closeness to this woman. I would probably say hi of I didn’t know her well and let the Spirit work on her. But if it was a close friend I would talk to her later. I think that being in ministry one needs to especially avoid the appearance of evil and no matter how you cut it, this will cause someone to judge or maybe gossip so even if it is a close friend not her husband it’s wrong.
I would immediately jump to conclusions, though I shouldn’t! Quite frankly, I would likely think that they were having an affair. Then I would try to convince myself that they were siblings or relatives.
If I knew that they for sure were NOT related, my opinion of both would go way, way down.
For my second answer:
I would try to assume that they were related, but again, if they weren’t… it really looks to me like it should NOT be happening! Totally inappropriate for a married woman, in my opinion. However, if she was unmarried… If the two were in a committed dating relationship, then that would be okay, I think. If they were both unmarried and not related or in a relationship with each other or anyone else, that’s complicated. Personally, I do not think such intimate friendships between a man and a woman are wise at all if there’s no intention and commitment for marriage!
As for my responsibility: if I didn’t personally know her, I would stay out of it. It’s just not my business, I don’t think. If I was friends with her, I would probably ask in a generic way. As many have said before me, this could potentially have been a perfectly innocent situation (as in, between siblings). I would let her explain herself.
Honestly though, even if it was innocent, it sure looks bad! (if she’s married or dating someone else or whatever) And what about that verse which talks about not causing anyone to stumble? What if someone were to see this questionable looking situation and see it as endorsement from the worship leader to have close man friends while married?
I’m just uncomfortable with the whole thing!
I would agree with Cheryl on this. I think that perhaps the best thing to do would be to go up and say something like ” hey (her name), how’s it going? I saw you come in and thought I would say hi”. At this point she would either gladly introduce me to her dining partner or become uneasy and wait for me to leave. AT that point it is up to God. If she is guilty of inappropriate behavior and is feeling at all guilty, it will come out at a later time and there is no need to confront her about it. That in itself would be interfering and intrusive.
Like I said, let God do the work.
If the woman is well known at church,and out having dinner in her own community,knowing anyone who knows her could see her,it would seem to me that the man must be a relative,or atleast a friend her husband knows about,and is ok with her having dinner with him,in a public place. I might pray for God to speak to me,if I have any place in talking to her about it. I might watch to see if we catch each other’s eyes,but doubt I would risk appearing nosy and go over to say hi. As one of the previous comments said,she is an adult,and does not need to be questioned at the slightest “sign”. Though we are to be accountable. Might be alert for any verbal/nonverbal communication from her,that she may be uneasy about something,and wanting to talk.
Ok, I saw this situation 2x. And both times I approached the person sometime afterwards.
The first time I witnessed a scene like this it turned out they were brother and sister. That was a little embarrassing! They really didn’t look alike and the way they were smiling at each other you could tell they really liked each other. I don’t know a lot of siblings with that kind of positive relationship.
The next time I saw something like the above situation I knew they weren’t related. She was his wife’s friend yet the wife was nowhere to be seen. I talked to her about it later and she said they were fine with each other having friends of the opposite sex. I told her one-on-one outings with friends of the opposite sex were very unwise. Not a good idea. She disagreed. It was some years later when she came to my way of seeing things. Thankfully her marriage is still intact.
I would pray about it, assume the best (a long lost friend/relative)-and then the next time I saw her (and we were alone) mention, “Hey I saw you the other day, was that your brother/cousin you were with? That would throw the ball in to her court and have the chance to explain herself without judgement.
im seeing alot of the comments here, and i raises a big question for me. what about the gentleman? comments ive seen have mostly been dedicated to the relationship between the obsever and the woman in the story. my thoughts arent with the man simply because i share his gender, but because i AM him.
i met one of my best friends in out church nursery. we are 4 months apart in age, went to the same church (sunday school, morning AND evening service, wednesday night, youthgroup for jr high and highschool). we went t the same school for 11 years. her mother taught our sunday school. our grandmothers were pen-pals. we have been through 4 of her kids births, and im “uncle” to all of them. weve been through the loss of 6 grandparents….i think you get the idea.
yes, she is married. and not to me… its cool like that.
people have said many things about us, in the “what-if”, “surprised you two never..” ive heard it all. the only negative comments, judgements if you will, have come from the church. our families hae nothing but gratitude and respect for our friendship… church loves to point its collective finger when they see us out. it used to hurt, but now, i am indifferent to it.
for those who have commented, please do not take this as personal attack, just food for thought.
if the observer and the woman were close…shouldnt it be questioned on if you know this man as well? if youre not close enough to know that, then youre not close enough to show concern aka judge. if you are close enough that you should know who he is but dont..go over. close friends, not aquaintences, do have that ‘right’ to step up. weigh options and outcomes before you act.
as for the relationship, where is this deemed wrong? is it just the pharisee attitude that was condemned by jesus when the woman came and washed his feet? the comments and ideas conjured by people seeing jesus with the woman at the well? i would like to think that when jesus wept upon hearing of lazarus death, that mary and martha simply let their friend pour it out without a shoulder to cry on?
am i saying there is no possiblility of this being a “improper” situation? no. its there, this is life, we are broken people and bad things happen–sometimes because we do them. at the same time while your friend was over there in tears, got the hug she needed and left with a smile….that man was being the friend that you weren’t.
I was discussing this with my husband just now, and he said that he knows what he WOULDN’T do – and that would be to do nothing. He said that the direct approach would be best, in order to clear up any speculation. He said he’d likely go up to her and ask either: “Does your husband know you’re out on a date?”, or “Is this your brother?”. He will comment later.
I thought this was a hypothetical story, but now that some facts (??) have been presented, I have a few comments for Shane.
First, although the women in this story are from the same church, there doesn’t seem to be a close relationship. There could be various reasons for this.
Second, seeing this kind of situation should cause some sort of wondering to take place, since the married woman was with a man at a restaurant who was NOT her husband, and this was observed by someone from her church. We ARE to hold one another accountable, no matter how close or distant our relationship is to the other person.
Thirdly, just because a man has been friends with a woman since babyhood doesn’t mean that he should go out with her for dinner without their spouse(s). Personally, I would think that it would be stronger grounds for NOT going out together without the other spouse(s). The analogy of Mary/Martha weeping with Jesus over the death of Lazarus is rather weak.
Fourthly, if this story is true, and you are indeed “the man” in this story, it sounds like you grew up in the church but have been hurt by things said about this particular friendship over the years. Personally, I think that a friendship with this woman would be best if her husband was included. This makes me question the motives of all involved.
Fifthly, “concern” is not also known as “judgment”.
Sixthly, what standard are you using? You are judging that your relationship “is cool like that”. Seems a little subjective to me.
Seventhly, you said yourself that people who are “not close enough” don’t have the right to judge, so why is it that in your closing statement you make a judgment that the observer in this story wasn’t being the friend that this woman needed?
Please do not see this as an attack. I appreciate your willingness to share, but I do believe that you are not being very objective about this relationship.
thank you for your comments.
i would like to point out that as far as i know, i am not “the man” in this story factually, i just come from a VERY similar situation and have lived out the after effects. i hope that my comment on the story in no way affects the credibility and integrity of the writer.
please also note that any direct statements i made are based on past history, personal experiences, etc. whie the following comments were posed as hypotheticals, maybes and a peppering of question marks.
Two issues are in question here. Number 1: What is the relationship of the married woman to the dinner guest? Number 2: What action should the observing patron and fellow churchgoer take?
I will deal with these two issues simultaneously. I believe that brothers and sisters in Christ need to take that sibling relationship seriously. The Bible does not teach us to mind our own business when it comes to the sins of other Christians. Galatians 6:1 teaches us to gently correct one another. The observing sister in the restaurant would be correct to assume that the married woman is a fellow believer since she is a part of the worship team. As a fellow believer, she has a responsibility to correct wrongdoing. However, she should not jump to conclusions. The actions of the couple in the restaurant could suggest that the two are related, as in brother and sister, or father and daughter. So the observer should not assume it is an inappropriate relationship. However, since there is a distinct possibility that the couple are not so closely related, she has a responsibility to approach the woman and question what’s going on. If it was me, I think I would start by approaching her and asking if the man she was with was her brother. If the answer is no, I would follow up by asking what their relationship is.
I can think of very few instances where the kind of interaction going on by this couple is appropriate for two people where one of them is married. Unless they’re closely related like a brother and sister, this has to be considered a date, since the woman’s husband is not present. Many people in our worldly society would say that as long as they are not having sex, their actions are innocent. This is incorrect. The situation is obviously intimate, and adultery often begins with emotional intimacy. Call it “emotional adultery” if you will. The man in the situation is taking a place that should be occupied by the woman’s husband. This situation where the woman’s husband is absent while she is out with another man is one that all married men and woman should completely avoid.
Many people would say this is meddling in other people’s business. Many people would say, “mind your own business.” Many people would say “pray for them”. Many would say, “don’t judge”. I say this is meddling like the person who rushes into a burning building to save those inside is meddling. As Christians, we are not meant to “mind our own business”. We are responsible for each other as well. Ask God to help you overcome the fear of getting involved. You never know when you may stop someone who’s heading in the wrong direction. You may stop someone before things get out of hand. You may stop someone before their initial actions become habitual.
Pingback: To Judge or Not to Judge | Carla Anne Coroy